[Spotykach] preparatory meeting?

[olhas]

Hi, people,

lets us see what the expectation we have from a 
preparatory meeting? If its only discussion 
programm and correct some logistic, getting to 
know each other better, but not dealing with 
visas, then maybe its also enough make it a bit 
later in Apil if March is difficult? We 
defanately need t check location of the seminar 
that it comfortable for all etc.
lets see first who want or able to come first, 
and then see which dae the best for all?
Fabian, Jane, Karl-Heinz, Andrea, Zaczek, Laura, Ute (Vlad?), Michael???
There is some money to cover the cost of travel 
and accomodation that we don't need to deal with 
costs of the trip very strickly yourself.

For me personally the meeting is important to 
have as early as possible to get to know each 
other, get inspiration for tuture preparation. It 
is another feeling when you feel not alone. with 
a list is anothe vitual feeling.

I will attach our old AD that we get the feeling how it all has started:-)

regards, Olga

How the idea was born (digest of ideas from alter-ee mailing list www.):
                                        > West 
would have a problem even understand East.

“Perhaps we need to deconstruct this "West": 
certainly there are many people, as much in the 
activist and anarchist milieux as anywhere else, 
who have no interest in understanding the East, 
whether that is a European East or extends beyond 
Europe. (It took me some time to realise that 
when they use the word "we" it stands for Western 
Europeans!) Indeed, they do not want to 
understand people outside their own circles, they 
simply want to act as missionaries preaching 
whatever message of world salvation that happens 
to have afflicted their minds /.:/
Further, I feel that it is necessary to speak of 
an anti Eastern European racism. The reason why 
this goes further than chauvinism is that 
historically it has used the Nazi methods of 
extermination. In Western Europe there is a 
marked reluctance to accept that the Nazi's 
regarded Slavs as sub-human /
 /. Further all 
this took place in a context where anti-Slav racism had
been prevalent amongst radical circles (e.g. 
Engels), and indeed the cold war retained an 
anti-Slav element hiding behind the anti-communism.“ - Fabian.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“I don't know anymore what is right and what is 
wrong and I stop considered myself neither 
Eastern neither become Western (never actually 
wanted). I prefer to stay so as I am without 
labels. In the same time I cannot shut up my 
thoughts about the two different worlds I stay 
in-between how put it together. Now I know these 
two worlds more less the same to be able have 
opinion out of "cultural codes". The only judder 
I can hear is my heart. This I prefer to keep: 
stay myself without try fit to others.
  What makes me angry how East goes not want 
understand the West and how less the negative 
aspects of the Western society is covered and 
discussed in post-soviet countries. In the same 
time the East presented in Western media as 
alcoholics-vodka-swimming society, full of stupid 
things etc. I see there missing to be a balance 
in understanding or wish to learn more about each 
other out of the labels or cultural stereotypes. 
In 1999 there was interesting project started to 
cover the informational gap in between East and 
West on activism issue to avoid NGOs tourisms, 
Tusovka newsletter 
<http://www.savanne.ch/tusovka/welcome.en.html>http://www.savanne.ch/tusovka/welcome.en.html. 
It was an attempt bring topic from the surface on the personal level.
I only want to say that the topic East-West is 
not easy one; it’s required a lot of honesty, 
tolerance and patience. For those with “mask” 
approach  I would not recommend join this list 
cause of danger of shking an inner world and 
adopted from close environment peceptions J If 
somebody really and honestly interesting to dive 
in it, not afraid become emotional and trough 
unpleasant discovering get release and freedom, I 
recommend to join the list. I would be very glad 
share of ideas, to listen to others and slowly 
find the way to the bridge which might connect 
us, might also not but it worth to try.“ - Olga

            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“O, I would like elaboration on the concept of 
western people not being able to understand 
the >soul of the east> idea, I am paraphrasing 
here, this is something often touched upon but I 
would like more discussion of the idea, partially 
because this is a chance to critique the idea 
of >who holds knowledge, and who is meant to 
listen> and also because from the other side it 
is an often made comment against western 
activists of how they >just don’t get it> but 
without supporting statements of just what they are not getting?”, - Jane

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“For me, some of these E-W topics are reminiscent 
of the kinds of broad cultural/anthropological 
once /.../ What is interesting to me is also 
which topics are not developed in the West that 
are in the East and vice versa and so on. Of 
course you cannot even say "East" really because 
you can see some big differences between, for 
example Poland and Russia, so it's more of a 
"culture by culture" topic. /
/ I sometimes feel 
like the information gap is one of the problems.
I don't know how many people from Western Europe 
have had this experience. You travel somewhere, 
meet a fellow activist and start to talk about 
something you're doing and all of a sudden you 
feel like you're from another planet /
/Some 
people in the West (and even some in the East) 
feel that this topic is taboo. After all, we're 
all human beings, we all have a similar set of
values, and we should be coming from the same 
perspective. Some people feel this question as I 
have put it concentrates on division and not what 
we have in common. Maybe - I think it's a topic 
that has lingered in the background for the last 
10 years but few people want to really talk about /
/
My hope would be that anybody who is interested 
in increasing the exchange between east and west 
really try to have a discussion on their experiences.“ Laure
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
”I think perhaps a list for some East-West 
comparison would be useful if it could deal with 
a whole range of issues”, - Fabian
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“If only I’ll find a chance I’ll definitely write 
longer concerning these topics of
"Cultural (burning) bridges /
/ In Berlin, but 
also Amsterdam, Barcelona, etc. (I was
many times there) ALWAYS I encountered deep 
disinterest of local "majority scene"(German, 
Dutch...) towards EE realities. It was like all my political activities
back in Poland didn't mean a fuck, nobody 
(including friends) was willing to hear much 
about it or make solid contacts /
/On other hand 
through all these years, despite of large EE 
community in Berlin, I was most of the times one 
of very few foreigners deeply involved in
political activities (affinity groups, actions, preparations and organizing
demonstrations, publishing propaganda, 
etc.)/
/Yet, strongly anti-political attitude of 
"easterners“ I cannot excuse, gaps are fucking 
big in general. strange to think, but
after spending over 7 years in Berlin I realised 
that all my better friends are of non-German
origin (EE, Italy, Iran, Turkey/Kurdistan, etc.). 
It shouldn't matter in perfect world, but in this 
one it indicates a lot. EE have characteristics 
of "negative exotic" -in the west there are 
attractions towards Latin America or Spain e.g., 
because these places are Christian populated, 
sunny and easily romanticised /
/Sorry, I’d love 
to extend topic, but my access is shit, in some 
time I put longer text on that,” – Muri
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“I am convinced we need such an East-West 
exchange bullshit, we need to put the steam way 
(both sides). It's more less like in partnership: 
you need go through certain fights till you get 
some harmony and understanding afterwards. I 
would not mind to be open enough with it. The 
shyness, tabooisation or hesitation due to the 
Westerners "politeness" or Eastern silence cause 
of not knowing dominant English language properly 
or other factors) create certain tension and 
produce unnecessary hypocrisy of coexistence with 
hidden inception of each other. To be accepted is 
necessary to know each other and be aware what 
other thinks of you to see yourself in other way, 
to have a mirror. For this there are needs of 
explanations, analysis why this like this or like 
that. The big role here plays personal 
experience, which change a person itself and can 
help others. I am constantly in migrant’s circles 
and learn to learn also from others to understand 
certain things about our differences and 
connections. Therefore I need more stories to 
read and think about. And sometimes I need a 
stage to put steam out, something like mailing list”, - Olga
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