[Spotykach] 3-5 of June?

[jane mitchell]

sorry for a certain period of silence, i was transported back in time to days before the internet.

Me and Olha had something of a talking marathon a couple of weeks ago on a range of issues that  i think other people on the list may be interested in engaging in, on our favourite topic, misunderstandings between east and west.

actually my idea is to kick start a bit of discussion on the list, perhaps a topic each month kind of thing, 
one other friend said to me the other day, "initially i felt everybody was similar,but the more contact i have with people from western countries and the closer i work with western people the more i realise how different we are, only after leaving ukraine do i realise what a ukrainian is like, in that other people were not behaving in a way normal to me.  when i started to notice it i felt there was something kind of ugly about their attitudes. these days i understand the cultural assumptions a bit better and i dont have the same negative feeling "
everbody notices some things that often seem kind of negative about otehr cultures, people from XXX country are not generous, people from YYY are overbearing, people from ZZZ are unfriendly.

of course this is a forum for saying "my experience has led me to notice this difference, how does someone from that culture feel about/react to that/" rather stereotype soapbox,
anyway,topics i would like to  start discussion about (as off list discussion has already started on these )are attitudes to 

- how to answer the question "how are you?"
- what are the criteria of crossing over from aquaintance to 'friend'?
- a problem shared is a problem halved? how much venting is 'normal'according to culture and how much is just self pity-the role of listener- is assuring a friend 'everything will be alright' a sign of support or a refusal to listen?
- gift giving- a token gesture or metaphor of how much you value the friendship?
- "they seem to like dogs more than they like children"- expressions of affection and openess between strangers
- is smiling an expression of freindliness, happiness or a refusal to trust others with your real emotional state?
-is raising your voice a sign of emotional instability?
-money- what are the assumptions about how to interact with money that make some suffer accusations of ungenerous nature, and others of being irresponsible/impractical?

anyway, below is something on the last topic, taken from a site tryukraine.com which is to give information to english speaking people as somekind fo culture shock preparation, 
i did not write the article, but some interesting discussion points are there, for me in particular the last paragraph. 
it would be good if other people could make some contributions on this same topic!
thanks, 
jane

Money and wealth
Wealth in the West is almost universally assumed to be a good thing, but Ukrainians have more ambigious attitudes. Ukraine does not have the concept of "working your way from rags to riches" or the Protestant notion of creating wealth through "good-old honest hard work." This seems to be a hold-over from the Soviet Union, where one did not "buy" an apartment, one "got" an apartment (after years of being on a waiting list). In the USSR one's wealth depended on how close one's connections were to centralized power structures. In Ukraine people are still suspicious (and envious) of the rich. "They must have some special privileges or connections," people assume.

One of the main reasons for this distrust of the rich is that just 15 or 20 years ago everyone in the Soviet Union had essentially the same amount of wealth. The popular view is that the only way of getting rich in the decade or so after the fall of the Soviet Union was by abusing one's advantageous position in the government kormushka ("feeding trough"). Since the government controlled most assets, bureaucrats who managed these assets could use their connections to sell off national assets and pocket the money. As a joke goes, don't ask me where I got my first million. Hence, the popular view is that anyone who is rich today must have robbed the nation at some point to get his starting capital.

Another cause of this mistrust of wealth and investment is the fact that for 70 years the Soviet ethical system taught that wealth and greed are the same thing. People were taught modesty and self-sacrifice for the sake of their children's "bright future." Soviet citizens learned to feel guilty for wanting to earn more than they were entitled to and be apologetic about any personal business projects they had. At the same time there was intense competition and jealousy surrounding professional and government positions where one would have more opportunities and a higher salary. These ingrained attitudes are prevalent to this day.
 
 

In Ukraine the wealthy—a few of whom may have in fact earned their wealth through "honest hard work"—tend to distance themselves from the poor and envious masses. There is even a special name for the upper class: the "elite." In the Soviet Union one did not become part of the "elite" through hard work, but rather had the fortune to be in the right place and know the right people, and the word today has preserved this hue. The tinted car windows of the rich keep out curious stares. Extravagantly dressed trophy wives in sunglasses who rarely leave their fancy cars are an attribute of many of Ukraine's "new rich." A more modest middle class has only recently begun to appear.

Financial literacy is generally quite low even among intellectuals. When ordinary Ukrainians start making decent money, they tend to "waste" it on friends and relatives rather than hold on to it to build personal wealth. These Ukrainians generally do not have savings other than the proverbial stash of dollars in a jar, since people are suspicious of banks after inflation devoured their life savings in the early 90s. Their financial security is instead a network of relatives and friends whom they borrow from or lend money to freely. In most western countries such financial interdependency is avoided, and if a man has financial troubles he goes bankrupt alone. 

-- 
____________________________________________________
Get your own Hello Kitty email @ www.sanriotown.com

Powered by Outblaze